Comments on Lawrence W. Wilson: Do We Need More Bibles?

When the TNIV came out, I was surprised that it re...

2008-08-09T13:56:00.000-04:00

When the TNIV came out, I was surprised that it received so much negative attention for its gender inclusive language when the NLT had slipped under the radar. That's when I realized that the NIV had become the new KJV. (Though I haven't heard anyone say "If the NIV was good enough for the Apostle Paul, it is good enough for me.")

I agree with Joe that translation production needs to be on-going--"evergreen" to quote the TNIV translators.

Ken ...

How about, "In any category except...

2008-08-09T06:43:00.000-04:00

Ken ...

How about, "In any category except familiarity and market share"?

As a publisher myself, I don't underestimate the powerful grip of both consumer preference and marketplace momentum.

Don't forget that the KJV is still the most read version--because all those older KJV readers still use it. Will baby boomers do the same with their beloved NIV?

Also ... the NIV is much easier to read aloud than the NLT, making it a much more useful translation for public worship.

Not that anybody reads the Bible in church anymore ;-)

Keith,

Thanks for the corrective comments o...

2008-08-09T06:38:00.000-04:00

Keith,

Thanks for the corrective comments on NLT’s gender language, and the quote from the introduction. I just took time to check a few places, and it’s better than I remembered, so I probably should say I stand corrected, for the most part.

I do hope (perhaps in a third edition, in a few years?) we can leave Shaddai untranslated, with footnotes about its meaning; get away from “help” language (for Hebrew ‘ezer) in Genesis 2:18; take out the two extra “submit”s in Ephesians 5:22, 24; and correct the translation of 1 Timothy 2:12, 15 (to cite the most important of my parade examples).

Of course, no other translation with mass appeal has addressed these issues, either, and to pursue the “parade” language a bit further, the problem of leading too far, too fast, is that one can end up with no one following. I am confident Mark Taylor and his team will do the right thing, at the right pace.

Great interview! I'd like to extend my thanks to D...

2008-08-08T17:12:00.000-04:00

Great interview! I'd like to extend my thanks to Dr. Coleson for his work on the NLT, NLT Study Bible, and Corenerstone Commentary.

But I'm confused about his claim that the NLT isn't gender-inclusive. If you'll excuse the lengthy comment, here's a quote from the introduction to the NLT:

One challenge we faced was how to translate accurately the ancient biblical text that was originally written in a context where male-oriented terms were used to refer to humanity generally. We needed to respect the nature of the ancient context while also trying to make the translation clear to a modern audience that tends to read male-oriented language as applying only to males. Often the original text, though using masculine nouns and pronouns, clearly intends that the message be applied to both men and women. A typical example is found in the New Testament letters, where the believers are called “brothers” (adelphoi). Yet it is clear from the content of these letters that they were addressed to all the believers—male and female. Thus, we have usually translated this Greek word as “brothers and sisters” in order to represent the historical situation more accurately.
We have also been sensitive to passages where the text applies generally to human beings or to the human condition. In some instances we have used plural pronouns (they, them) in place of the masculine singular (he, him). For example, a traditional rendering of Proverbs 22:6 is: “Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it.” We have rendered it: “Direct your children onto the right path, and when they are older, they will not leave it.” At times, we have also replaced third person pronouns with the second person to ensure clarity. A traditional rendering of Proverbs 26:27 is: “He who digs a pit will fall into it, and he who rolls a stone, it will come back on him.” We have rendered it: “If you set a trap for others, you will get caught in it yourself. If you roll a boulder down on others, it will crush you instead.”
We should emphasize, however, that all masculine nouns and pronouns used to represent God (for example, “Father”) have been maintained without exception. All decisions of this kind have been driven by the concern to reflect accurately the intended meaning of the original texts of Scripture.

If Dr. Coleson is available for clarification, I'd like to know if he meant that the NLT wasn't consistent in applying this philosophy, or if he just thinks it doesn't go far enough (a la the Shadday example).

I agree that, as far as dynamic equivalence transl...

2008-08-08T15:24:00.000-04:00

I agree that, as far as dynamic equivalence translations that aren't paraphrases, the NLT is hard to beat. I thought Joe did a good job of recognizing the inaccuracy of versions that keep "man" in places where the Greek or Hebrew is generic.

No one is forcing anyone to buy the NLT if a person wants a more wooden translation (which may actually mean it is worse as a translation, even if better for serious study). There is no "best" translation--it depends on what a person hopes to get from the translation.

But I would say what Joe did not. The NIV's days are at an end. In any category except familiarity, there is now something better out there (making it the new KJV). The TNIV in particular is a great improvement, which I even prefer to the NLT.