Comments on Lawrence W. Wilson: I Really Don't Get Church

Religion/Relationship? I guess it depends on wher...

2009-04-20T07:14:00.000-04:00

Religion/Relationship? I guess it depends on where one places their faith and trust. I don't put my faith and trust in my "religion", in fact, I don't consider myself to be a religious person in the way that the world around me defines "religion". When God pursued me He brought me into a relationship with His One and Only Son, Jesus Christ. He didn't pursue me through religion but through relationship. Religion is what we do! Relationship is who we are! Religion apart from relationship will be fruitless and powerless. Jesus in John 15 tells us in His own words,...apart from Me you can do Nothing!

Today churches are full of dead works, because the pew are full of people with "dead" faith. While James tells us that faith without works is dead, we also are told that without faith it is impossible to please God.

To me it's all about relationship in and through Christ! Religion is man trying to reach up to God, Relationship is God reaching down to man. I believe their is a place for ritual and tradition, "we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water", but if the "religious" practices dont' flow from a relationship with the Son of the Most High God, it is all wasted. I don't have time to waste on things that are only man centered. I want to please my Father and in order to plese my Father I must place my faith and trust in RELATIONSHIP not in religion.

Renee

Religion is what the Pharisees, Sadducees, Muslims...

2009-03-22T07:11:00.000-04:00

Religion is what the Pharisees, Sadducees, Muslims, Buddhists, and other self-righteous followers of God cling to. It is only by faith and a relationship with Jesus Christ that we can be made perfect enough to be in God's presence.

You say tomato, I say tomata. Those who take issue...

2009-03-21T13:35:00.000-04:00

You say tomato, I say tomata. Those who take issue with "religion" (I myself am a "Christ-follower" on and on I could go) are really rallying against hypocrisy and a pharisaical mindset. Don't you think?

We talk this fancy talk (says a woman who LOVES theology and puritan works) but how much do we LIVE IT? We are grumbling, we are lazy, we are self-centered, we are joyless, we are critical of each other- all in the Name of Jesus, Amen?! I think many in the world lump this God-offending lifestyle under the word "religion."

We claim His Name in vain and offend His testimony. This is what so many non-Christ-followers find offensive and disgusting. Many of us in the church do as well.

Don't get me wrong, I love tradition (can you hear Tevye singing here?), but it is not what gives life. Tradition does not endear me to the Lord. Apparently His love is totally unearned! :0) Thank the Lord. I've read the account of the Pharisees. They were rotten. I have been a Pharisee. Yuck.

To that the world holds us in self-earned condemnation, and they call it "religion." You bet it matters. And Jesus offers us freedom from it all, a life that counts, and something over which to sing and shout! Preach on, Brother!

Nice thoughts, Arielle. I'm intrigued by the d...

2009-03-21T10:37:00.000-04:00

Nice thoughts, Arielle. I'm intrigued by the different values people have placed on "religion."

Some see it as something foreign to Christianity--sort of man's corruption of what Jesus was doing.

Others try to redeem religion, saying that religion itself is not bad--just when it gets in the way of faith.

A few try to maintain that there really is no distinction--"pure religion" really is faith, etc.

I wonder why this topic has aroused so much discussion (here, Facebook, & e-mail). Clearly, it matters very much to people.

Here's my try:

Have you ever taken a good l...

2009-03-20T21:05:00.000-04:00

Here's my try:

Have you ever taken a good look at your self and thought, "Yuck, I don't like what I see. I wish I was different." Have you? Have you ever wondered if this life you are living is it? Is this all there is for me? What is my purpose anyway? The next great deal? The next million in my bank account? Saving Africa from bad water and starvation? From AIDs? What if I cannot solve it? Was my effort worth it? What's the point? Why am I here? Does anyone even care? Really?

Do any of these thoughts go through your head? What's the solution? How do fix yourself so that you do not loathe what you see? How do you fix yourself so that you recognize a purpose? Can you fix yourself? Can you make peace with yourself?

What if someone out there cares so much about you that they want to do whatever it takes to give you peace? Relief? Something to hang onto in this chaos we call life? This someone exists. This someone is the God of the universe, and He knows your name. He cares about who you are and where you have been. He wants to enable you to walk away from all the yuck you carry around in your heart and replace it with His heart of love and peace and a joy that is unfathomable. He offers you a future beyond what you can see today. And He offers all this, and more, at His own expense. Cause He knows we cannot afford the price of perfection and purpose.

See, this is not a religion. This is not a lifestyle of certain clothing, foods, or even hairstyles. It is not about talking the right talk. This is a relationship with the God of the world that looks at you and is in love. He is in love with you. He is so in love with you that He had His Son take all the punishment you deserve for your yuck that you've been carrying around. You don't have to be disgusted with yourself anymore. He replaced your yuck with His perfect Son's perfection so that you would get to be reconciled with His perfect Self. Forever. Just because He is in love with you, and He knows that you cannot even stand in His presence while carrying about yuck (selfishness, meanness, laziness, greed, complacency, and so on).

So He offers you a new self, paid for with the gift of the life of His Son. Just to offer you freedom, peace and a future. All with Him. All this is even for Him as well. You are the gift He gave Himself. It is for you, but it is ultimately for Him. It's a win win for everyone. And you don't even deserve it. None of us do. He just loves us that much.

These are good thoughts, guys. Anybody want to tak...

2009-03-19T19:37:00.000-04:00

These are good thoughts, guys. Anybody want to take a crack at defining "born again" in language your average church goer will understand?? :-)

Sorry, Larry,

One more comes to mind...
2009-03-19T12:54:00.000-04:00
Sorry, Larry,

One more comes to mind...

Peter ministry rode Tabitha's coat tails as she did the grunt work pracitcing true religion among the poor. Many came to Christ at Joppa, but the foundation laid was the consistent practice of pure religion by Tabitha. Acts 9: 36-42

I think that one verse.. something about faith wit...

2009-03-19T12:47:00.001-04:00

I think that one verse.. something about faith without works is dead... is kind of like this in that there's faith and there's the demonstration of it, religion. I think God wants us to not just choose one or the other but marry the two, living out a healthy relationship with God in faith and letting it grow by attending church and going by "religion"

Larry,

My first response was from your twit...

2009-03-19T12:47:00.000-04:00

Larry,

My first response was from your twitter post.

Reading your entire blog post - I might add that it was the practice of true religion in the early church that was the witness that caused the world to fear and many to be added daily to the Body of Christ.

Acts 2:42 - 47.

Gary.

Hello Larry,

Gave sermon a few weeks ago ...

2009-03-19T12:34:00.000-04:00

Hello Larry,

Gave sermon a few weeks ago and said a few things about religion including what may be a helpful quote for J.A. Moyter:

From sermon:

Now I know today it is fashionable for Christians to explain that Christianity is not a religion – it is a relationship.

But biblically defined and executed – religion is not nasty.

“Religion is…a comprehensive word for the specific ways in which a heart-relationship to God is expressed in our lives.” – J. A. Moyter in The Message of James (page 75)

And here is something of what pure and undefiled religion before God looks like.

James 1: 27 – Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.
---------

If you have access to it, Moyter's quote is from The Message of James - The Bible Speaks Today New Tesatment series edited by John Stott. Page 75.

In Christ,

Gary.

Using the metaphor of love and marriage might be h...

2009-03-19T09:57:00.000-04:00

Using the metaphor of love and marriage might be helpful, taking the definition of religion as you have presented it.

Because I love my husband, I am faithful to him. He is central in any major decision-making and a lot of minor decision-making. His needs and preferences affect my grocery shopping, career choices, even clothing choices. These things could be faked, for sure, and often are. Then people marvel as what seemed to be a perfectly good marriage falls apart. But they are still necessary for a healthy relationship and when powered by the energy of love are very powerful.

Hope this helps.

Religion is nothing more than a man-made shell to ...

2009-03-19T08:54:00.000-04:00

Religion is nothing more than a man-made shell to keep up the appearance of good. Faith is nothing less than the assimilation of Godly character traits for the purpose of God completing us in our weaknesses.

Religion is born of separation. Pseudo-closeness is earned or obtained by how well one conforms to the status quo. Faith is born from a lack of status or station and is neither earned or obtained but is given in proportion to our obedience to first Loving God and Loving Others and serving God and serving others.

Religion is about rules; Faith about a relationship.

Religion sets everyone up for failure and hiding "naked" in life. Faith is grace in action calling out to all who will listen the message that they are loved, important and accepted. By Faith, we are clothed in God's righteousness.

Religion makes church non-living. It becomes nothing more than a building we go to or something we "do". Faith makes "Church" something we ARE.

Religion confines; faith allows for sheer abandonment free from "what would others think".

Religion is full of many words and remarks - we are TOLD what to do/say. Faith goes beyond words into a world in which the buildings are not made by human hands and are divinely remarkable.

Religion tries to create similarity from an emphasis on like behavior. Faith approaches the individual and echoes "I have plans for you" and "from your mother's womb I knew you."

Religion frowns upon anything different. Faith acknowledges the uniqueness of an individual with a smile and embrace and "welcome, home".